Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. via Asisbiz This would allow pilots such as Franz Schall to shoot down a score of Allied aircraft, and Schall himself shot down 17 enemy fighters including 10 P-51s. P-51 vs Bf-109 P-51 vs Bf-109 Airplanes armament and equipment 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings, 2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. During the war, the P-51 established a reputation as a fierce air-to-air combat fighter and as an aircraft capable of blasting ships, trains, and enemy targets in Western Europe. ' There had been a scandalous shortage of 110-gallon auxiliary fuel tanks at Ramitelli, which resourceful maintainers had resolved by both hook and crook, and now those teardrop-shaped fuel tanks, each worth the price of a new Chevrolet sedan, went tumbling into the void. Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. [ref: P-51 flight manual]. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. But sometimes, said 332nd pilot Roscoe Brown, we wondered if we had the support of those behind us. The AAF had plenty of officers like Col. (later, Gen.) William Spike Momyer who wrote that black pilots were inferior, and Maj. Gen. Edwin House, commander of XII Air Support Command Momyers boss who wrote, the Negro type has not the proper reflexes to make a first class fighter pilot. Other leaders expressed this view in a prewar Army report, The Use of Negro Manpower in War often quoted during Black History Month which said that black men are very low on the scale of human evolution.. possibly he may have chosen it if requirements called for two-seats. to his death. Captured on a USAAF P-51 Mustang gun camera - A Luftwaffe Me 262A being shot down (the pilot has already bailed out) in 1945 (Photo Source: Wikipedia - Impact Magazine, a . The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? the 357th FG and ace Capt Ernest C. Feeb Fiebelkorn of the 20th FG, 3 years ago. @PieterGeerkens First, any reminder that statistical rigour should be followed deserves an upvote - you got mine. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, Robert F. Dorr First proposed to the air ministry in the summer of 1938 as a research aircraft to use the new BMW P 3302 gas turbine engine, Messerschmitt's Project P.1065 was pursued by a design team led by Woldemar Voigt. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. Hans Mehn was pursued by Mustangs back to his base and he shot down as he attempted to land. Top speed of Me-163 was 600MPH. November 1940: de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito (Prototyp) Martin B-26 Marauder (40-1361) 29. The Schwalbe (German: " Swallow ") fighter version of the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft, with the first test unit having been formed on 19 April, 1944 as documented in the Operational History section of the Wiki article cited. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 (2019) L'argus. Personal Data collected: NonePlace of processing: Ireland Privacy PolicyOpt Out. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. Project P.1065. I caught up with Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. There are several better things about P-51. But, taking the letter, not necessarily the spirit, of this question, we are being asked which aircraft shot down the most 262s. Browse more videos. home. Try the F-15 Eagle. take-off. Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? Hit by 12.7mm bullets: destroyed. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. 43:47. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. (A) 8 x 7.7mm Browning machine guns in wings. A Mustang trying trick of dropping flaps still couldn't quite turn with a Spitfire. The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. The war against the jets intensified in November as the Luftwaffe increased its sortie rate with the Me 262. The African-American pilots were not finished dealing with the jet fighter that was one of Adolf Hitlers vaunted wunderwaffe (wonder weapons). The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. Follow. The world's first operational jet fighter. It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. in my studies on this crate for over 40 plus years. Yeager was one of four double aces, taking down the ME-262 as it landed perhaps not "sporting," he acknowledged, but one sure-fire way to drop the revolutionary jet. But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. Another time, when on patrol, he shot down several US B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that didn't react to repeated warnings. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. As I closed on him, I First, it was a capable fighter plane, able to engage in aerial combat with enemy aircraft and support Allied bombers. Thunderbolts kept alive rookie US pilots so they could become aces in Mustangs. 1,000ft. Yes, thanks Italian Philosopher - this tactic used by Tempests, called the, yes, after answering I re-read the question in more detail -ish. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? On Internet, a reference to book "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" ", "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. The German Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first operational jet fighter and appeared in air combat towards the end of World War Two. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). Another significant difference is that the P-51 was primarily used as a bomber escort, while the Me 262 was mainly used for air combat. Both planes also significantly impacted the war the P-51 helped to turn the tide in favor of the Allies, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. I started This was made using. During the WWII, did the German Luftwaffe ever have mixed units of Bf-109s and Me-262s, and if so, which units and/or which airfields? While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. There was black smoke and an explosion.. As told by Robert Forsyth in his book Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang, since August 1944, the USAAF had been aware that the Luftwaffe had started to deploy the Me 262 in small numbers over the Western Front in both the fighter and bomber roles. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. ), North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren, Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang, video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft", P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. 8 minutes read. Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. May 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ], [ 07. real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). P-38 Lightning The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . Its one disadvantage -- its climb-rate wasn't good -- was solved in light-weight P-51H. Piaggio P.111: 18. highly decorated pilots in the Luftwaffe, finally took off to engage the enemy It just fought differently. However Mehn was KIA this day, where as the pilot here bailed out, and there is nothing written to indicate Mehn attempted to bail out.It is ultimately unknown to me who the ME 262 in this clip belonged to. Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, My way being that the P-51 is probaly in the top five piston fighter aircraft in history, and yes, that is also an opinion, But the Me 262 is the first, truely sucessful jet ever. Although innovative in 1935, by 1943, Me-109 was out-classed. As the jets began to move across Box contents [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? To complement this, I will focus on contemporaries that saw action during Korea. This is due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft.. Tuskegee Airmen Edward C. Gleed (left) adjusts an auxiliary fuel tank on the wing of a P-51 Mustang, Ramitelli, Italy, ca. Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. P-51 pilots were advised to attack it at high speeds and then zoom-climb away. As the Wiki article confirms: Allied pilots soon found that the only reliable way to destroy the jets, as with the even faster Me 163B Komet rocket fighters, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. (Air Force af.mil)] the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. What WWII fighter raid did my great-uncle misremember? keep a close eye on the attacking enemy fighter and make an abrupt, Log in or Sign up to interact with the community. opportunity to fire at the jet in a head-on pass trading gun for After seven Tempests were lost to flak at Hopsten in a week, the "Rat Scramble" was discontinued. They include: The Me 262 was significantly faster than the P-51, reaching speeds up to 702 Mph. wrecks there were two mounting columns of black smoke.. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. The P-51 achieved several "firsts." P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. For a few moments he monitored their progress: The lead ship was in take-off position on The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. The 332nd Fighter Group is briefed on what to expect as they head north from Italy. The 332nds aircraft had distinctive markings that gave them the name Red Tails. U.S. Air Force photo. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. [ref: video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft"]. observed hits all over the wings and fuselage.. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. Very good article, one that needs to be repeated again and again. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. Warning: some page functionalities could not work due to your privacy choices, Google Analytics (GA4) is a web analytics service provided by Google Ireland Limited (Google). The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Browns P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. Me-609, It wasnt easy. (The figures are not totally reliable. Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. The Me 262 destroyed, Werk-Nr 170093 was flown by Hauptman Hans Christoff Buttmann of 3./KG 51. 13:12. B-17s didn't have door gunners. It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. They did not intercept the jet, but instead flew towards the Me 262 and Ar 234 base at Hopsten air base. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. 22 Jets of JG7 got airborne to attack the bombers steam.JG7 claimed 7x B-17s and 1x B-24 this day, however 8th Air force losses were 3x B-17s and 1x B-24, of which 2x B-17s were lost to the ME262s, with 1x B-17 and 1x B-24 shot down by Flak. Instead of going directly after them, we went away from them and then turned into their blind spots.. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. tight turn into the attacker at just the precise moment before the jet I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does!