However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. Thanks. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. and our ears are completely different. With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. But if you don't, what is your reference point? Thank you for posting! You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. The world's largest high-end audio community. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. Thanks guys! as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. If you go reference you will never look back. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? @ricred1, youre right to point that out. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. Thank you, Mike. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or fake by any means necessary jacket. Cheers @Stereophilus You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. so these are less preferred. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. I found it big bold brash and dynamic but hard cold glary and fatiguing - all the old fashioned things I hated about early digital. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. More to follow. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. You must log in or register to reply here. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. All rights reserved. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. It's embarrassing. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. Nice. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. That's the negative to going my route I guess. After that you are GOLDEN. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. I can see the problem with this unit. It is worth every penny. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. personal preference. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. It's easy! Looking forward to the your additions to the list. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. It will kick your ass. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. The SQ is amazingly good. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. The Discrete DAC we have here is the baby of the four DACs MSB produces, with the top-of-the-range Select DAC boldly proclaiming to be the worlds finest DAC. It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. JavaScript is disabled. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But dont take our word for it. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. Well build a personalized offer for your existing MSB products that count towards a new DAC or amplifier. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. But it need good system matching. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. . more might come to mind and I will add them. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. You are using an out of date browser. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. Not a bad idea Snoop! It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Up to 8X DSD It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. - Roon Endpoint. I havent heard the Rockna. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. DLNA Protocol. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. Click to expand. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different Up to 4X DSD Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. So take it for what it is. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. We feel This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. has 20 hours on it. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. Our publication is supported by its audience. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet